Careers agree that, in a lot of places, evidence was already community is really good at doing this. We could do there. There has been progress; however, there are that better. I could argue that, in Britain, we dont external factors that have forced us to get to this point. really understand community in the way a lot of places in Africa and Asia do, for example. We could all, myself included, be better at taking an Have your priorities changed since asset-based, rather than a deficit-based, approach founding ClearView? when showcasing insights. You could read through all Its always been about making sure research is more the research and say: This community is one of the equitable and, at the same time, looking after people most resilient communities, despite all the odds. It who participate in our research. Those things have allows you to ask different questions. remained the same. We may have had to adapt tactics Even looking at myself, I could think woe is me. or approaches because the world has been shifting, I grew up in a single-parent household; however, there but the heart of what were doing is the same. are traits that my mum has instilled in me that are priceless. Often, were just looking for whats missing, Cost of sample continues to be an issue whats lacking. And if the media keep pushing that out, for more inclusive research. How can and we as researchers keep pushing that out, where this change when this systemic barrier do people see the hope? is in place? One of the things about the book is that its not just Its about being honest the cost is the cost. On a me sharing a memoir; its also an opportunity for me to practical, normal-citizen level, I dont really have much talk about societal issues and it allows me to open up choice about my water bill, do I? The costs are the those questions. For example, if you know that our costs and I just pay them. criminal justice system is the way that it is and we People are always going to try to cut corners where send people to prison and they cost us, on average, they feel its acceptable to cut corners. Were always 40,000 a year do you think that is genuinely value for clear with this; we focus on speaking to people with money? These are the questions that diverse backgrounds, and that could we, as researchers, can begin to ask. be people who identify as white. There are a lot of areas where we When talking about marginalised Its very important to could be more provocative, to get research, people have an idea in their understand the power head, but there are so many people people to look at things through a of what is, but we different lens. Like, what would you who have never been invited to take should still be able to want prisons to look like, based on part in research never ever been dream and ask what the fact that 99% of people are going asked what they think. So our key could it be? to leave one day? How youd design thing is not just about doing the it, and what youd want to happen, research; its how to engage people would suddenly change. so that this stuff becomes normal. Thats the power of research and Sometimes, the issue is that we the reason I got into it in the first place. Its very need to make it clearer, for example, what a client important to understand the power of what is, but we wont get as a result, and what they could gain [if they should still be able to dream and ask what could it spent more]. A lot of the time, that doesnt happen. Its be? We dont really see enough of that. about saying, if you want these demographics, heres the cost benefit of doing so. As service providers, we need to be clearer and to play more of a role in You told Impact in 2019 that part of the showing the cost benefits of doing so. reason you set up ClearView was poor decision-making in politics, business and charities. Has there been any improvement in the use of evidence? Yes and no. Theres much greater awareness around nuance and differences since we started this work. Some of the things we flag or mention are now becoming more mainstream, which is positive. However, trust in data has become a heightened issue. The pandemic highlighted a lot of the differences or disparities. Some of that was born out of people not making the right decisions or thinking through things beforehand, which they could have. I think we can Has there been positive progress in the industrys inclusion conversation in the past few years? Yes, I think in terms of the stuff that MRS is doing Rebecca Coles work on representation and the EDI [equality, diversity and inclusion] council, for example is positive, and the work that CORe [Colour Of Research] and other groups are doing. People have been much more intentional about advocating, and making sure that this conversation remains quantitative whether that has shifted the hearts and 44 Impact ISSUE 42 2023_pp42-45 Kenny .indd 44 16/06/2023 17:15